by The Reverend Michael Foster SSC MIWO MIC

B-P Boy Scouts and Militarism.
In 1986 Allen Warren, a Field Commissioner of The Scout Association renewed the debate in the English Historical Review over the issue of militarism and the rationale behind the origins of the Boy Scout scheme #1. Missing from his survey of material was Sir Francis Vane's criticisms and secession, and any assessment of the impact of the Vane episode. Even Warren's contribution in concluding the debate #2 still leaves us in the dark over the Vane controversy. The omission is serious as it ignores criticisms by a Scout Leader who worked for the very organisation under discussion.
Later writers counterbalance Warren's omission. Tim Jeal's biography on Baden-Powell published three years later, devoted an entire sub-chapter to Vane, as well as references elsewhere on the impact that the Vane rebellion had on the developing scout scheme #3. More recently Robert MacDonald in "Sons of the Empire" recognises that "the quarrel [with Vane and the British Boy Scouts] left scars" on B-P's organisation #4. Warren is not an isolated figure, all previous biographies on Baden-Powell and all Scout histories written by members of the Boy Scouts/Scout Association, have been remarkably scarce in their details of Vane and the British Boy Scouts as a parallel organisation in direct competition. Almost, as in a conspiracy of silence, the Vane rebellion is played down as a minor episode or non-event. This article seeks to question Vane's role as a critic in the issue of militarism and the Boy Scout movement.

The British Boy Scouts were founded in May 1909 as a small schismatic organisation and formed from the Scout troops of the Battersea District. The British Boy Scouts gained sponsorship in the form of a weekly page in the boy's paper 'Chums', and through this expanded to almost every part of the United Kingdom. Initially disgruntled by the autocracy of the B-P HQ, they became reconciled, as an affiliated organisation in October 1909, through assurances given by Sir Francis Vane, then B-P's London Commissioner. In November 1909, the BBS Troops had seceded again in support of Sir Francis Vane who was sacked by Baden-Powell over arguments about the bureaucracy and militarism of Baden-Powell's Headquarters staff. With Vane as leader, early 1910 the BBS formed the National Peace Scouts, an alliance with the Boys' Life Brigade.
By 1911 the BBS existed, or was allied to Scout organisations, in 12 other Countries. It is certain that Vane's World Scouts worried the B-P organisation #5. What began as a few troops in London led, for a short period, to worldwide competition. The downfall of 'The Order of World Scouts' owed itself to Vane becoming a bankrupt with the BBS shrinking to a small domestic organisation.

Historians such as John Springhall cite Vane's criticisms as evidence of militarism within B-P's organisation in the formative years of the movement. Crucial to the position of Sir Francis Vane in his role as leader of the British Boy Scouts is the question 'were the B-P Scouts military or not ?'
The answer would help us to judge whether Vane was justified in strengthening a once reconciled scout organisation and turning it into a rival organisation in opposition to the B-P Scouts.
Scout historians from within the B-P Scout movement have always sought to put to rest the accusation that B-P's Boy Scouts were militaristic, and smooth over B-P's political bias #6. If their views are correct, Vane's criticisms were wrong and he was solely an egotist seeking power.
One of the more recent books to be published deals with the criticism of militarism in three simple sentences; "Some people reproached the Movement for being militaristic. Others said it was overtly pacifistic. The two extremes just about cancelled each other out." #7
Not only is the argument trivial, it also lacks in originality and is dependent upon an argument framed by Baden-Powell and preserved by Reynolds; "The Scouts Association may well be grateful to the anonymous 'Cadet Officer' who has pointed out that the Movement has got into the hands of Pacifists as this will tend to dissipate the accusation made that it is in the grip of Militarists." #8
Those who accused the organisation of militarism would include Vane and the Captain who suggested that the Boy Scouts had been captured by the military in the booklet 'The Boy Scout Bubble' #9.
Posterity provides no evidence of the former complainant. Two possibilities could account for this omission. At least one biographer gives a suggestion that B-P could invent correspondence #10. The second is that there was a scout movement that had been 'captured' by the pacifists, and that was the British Boy Scouts led by Vane. The Cadbury Family had been connected for a short period with B-P's organisation, recruited by Vane and left when Vane was sacked to strengthen the BBS with Vane. If the Cadburys form the substance of the criticism by the anonymous Cadet Officer, their potential for apologetics was short-lived and in fact reversed.

What is undeniable, setting aside the judgments of the historians, B-P's contemporaries were not happy about the militaristic leanings of the Baden-Powell movement, hence the criticism voiced in the media, a severe schism, and the emergence of other offshoots, decidedly anti-militaristic.

Boy Scouts & Militarism.
From the start there was criticism about the Boy Scout movement and whether it was military or not. Sir Francis Vane took on the critics with correspondence in the 'Times' #11 defending the movement, but only two months later was ousted from B-P's Scouts over the issue of the emerging organisation for the London districts. Vane was concerned about the lack of democracy and pro-militarism. The accusation that B-P's Scouts were military, rests on several questions. In addition the matter becomes more involved as the role of the critics was crucial for a movement that sought public approval. This article explores six questions in its discussion;
A - What was the rationale behind B-P's scheme?
B - How significant is the presence of militarists (Army personnel, National Service League members, Legion of Frontiersmen members)?
C - Was there direct involvement of scouts in military preparations?
D - Did the Scout scheme seek to generate interest in the Army and Navy?
E - How military would the movement have been if there was no criticism?
F - How important is the chronology of the boy scout history?

We can further compound the issue by asking what is meant by militarism. Baden-Powell's main definition when turning to apologetics for the scout movement rests on a simplistic use of the term. Militarism meant military drill, and since the scouts did not go in for military drill they were not military #12. Allen Warren turns to a technical definition and seeks to commend criteria set by a Professor Best #13.

According to Best, a society is military;
1) Where the Militaristic Class itself has a prominent function within society's civic institutions.
2) Where the Army its role and functioning is a substantial public issue.
3) Where typical military values of honour duty discipline and obedience are highly and widely valued amongst citizens at large.

Although this test refers to making a judgment on a society as a whole, different results can be yielded by applying the test to society as a whole and examining society's effect on the emerging scout movement, or by applying the test to the scout movement as a society within itself. Warren's methodology is restricted to the former. Whilst Britain as a society may not have been as military as other European States in the Edwardian period #14, not to be ignored are the aspirations towards this by the pro-militarists.
As to British society, the historian may not be concerned with the first part of the test #15, ie. Britain was not a military state governed and run by the military. However, if the B-P Scouts are considered as a society, then the presence of military officers is significant. The founder and many principal officers were military men. Also from the beginning of the organisation until May 1910, B-P was still in the pay of the Army. The military and their role and influence within Scouting was an issue amongst members of the Scout movement.
Whatever technical definitions we may wish to employ, we must consider the contemporary culture. Rosenthal points out in his study of Baden-Powell and the origins of the Scout movement; "Whatever was meant by militarism - and everyone had a different idea - it was important to large numbers of people that the Scouts not be guilty of it and most importantly to Baden-Powell himself" #16.  Rosenthal goes on to quote Baden-Powell's awareness of the issue and its implications and impact on the movement; "The Boy Scout movement is non-military... That fact appeals to a very large number of parents... Anti-military parents will allow their sons to join the Boy Scouts but prohibit them from joining a Cadet Corps" #17.

A. The rationale behind B-P's scheme.
Warren accuses the historians of a bias consisting of a concentration of what is seen by him as an envelope of B-P's social comment.  He argues that B-P's main aim was the core element of a boys' training scheme #18. Against this it can be argued that B-P's social comment, outlined the needs he saw in the training of youth, these needs being the rationale for his scheme. The training scheme for boys becomes the remedy. Warren also points out that some of the material in 'Scouting for Boys', B-P addressed to adults, and a concentration on this material by the critics distorts its true bias ie, scouting for boys. However, modern critics only echo voices raised in the Edwardian period. There was from the outset, a concern about the scheme, as to what was being inculcated in young people, and contemporary scout leaders such as Vane realised the romance and attraction about boys being scouts and sought to redress the balance in favour of what he saw as an educational scheme, hence the National Peace Scouts.

Central to Warren's hypothesis is the argument that you can identify and separate 'envelope' and 'contents'. The complexity and ambiguity of the issues concerned may not allow this neat separation. In introducing his article, Warren points out a gap between the professed aims and methods of the Boy Scouts, and the judgments of critical historians #19. However, various aims can co-exist. The scheme could aim at being character forming without excluding militarism. It must also be considered that an organisation may have professed aims but with a differing reality. There is a further factor in examining the aims of B-P in drawing up his scheme, largely contained in the Scout Bible 'Scouting for Boys', that is the contribution from others in the development and administration of the scheme. In other words, whether it is true or not, that B-P's motives for creating the Boy Scout scheme were either, entirely civic, or entirely military, the issue is further compounded by the fact that the emerging scheme attracted leaders at headquarters level who's connection with the pro-conscriptionists pressure group 'The National Service League', left their motives open to question.
Both Martin Dedman and Tim Jeal tend to favour the civic aims of B-P's Scouts as being a controlling factor in the development of the scheme. In Dedman's PhD Thesis and Tim Jeal's book examples are provided from various sources to illustrate this #20. It can be observed that Baden-Powell will have been happy in stressing the civil aims of scouting (or habits of observation), but for someone in B-P's position, that of being in military service and pay from choice, training in citizenship was part of training that would serve the aim of national defence. This for Baden-Powell included a high morality. A pacifist would press those same elements of training towards a different direction, ie., the pacifist Boys Life Brigade pursued training aimed at 'saving life'.

In other words, much of the training could be pressed into service by both militarist and pacifist. The training scheme could be held, as being neutral.
This brings us back to motives for implementing the scheme, ie the material aimed at the adults. Those defending B-P from charges of militarism would play down references tending towards suggesting B-P's military motives. As an example Tim Jeal suggests an early reference does not highlight Baden-Powell's designs on any youth training programme. "if you want to ensure peace let them see you are prepared for war. ...Now is the time while enthusiasm is still warm and before we sink back into our English easy chair, for us to prepare a wise and practical organisation of the splendid material lying ready to our hand." Baden-Powell to his publisher in January 1901 #21. However, this extract along with others of a similar nature led William Adams to conclude; "There can, however be no doubt, as is shown by the quotations from his writings already made, that a very important motive in the formation of the movement was the defence of the British Empire.." #22 Even if quotations from other writings of B-P were not able to supply us with any clue to his motives in creating a youth training scheme, 'Scouting for Boys' has its own internal evidence. Within the original presentation of the Scout scheme there is the emphasis of developing the character considered necessary for national defence (which in the initial editions of 'Scouting for Boys' required training in rifle shooting #23). Although the professed aim of B-P's scheme was 'training in citizenship' was there an ulterior motive ? and what is meant by citizenship ? According to the scout training Baden-Powell aimed at boys, the ideal citizen is at least someone who will be prepared to die for their country. He urges his boy readership; "BE PREPARED to die for your country if need be, so that when the moment arrives you may charge home with confidence, not caring whether you are going to be killed or not" #24. Note that our moment of potential martyrdom is not one that results from civil passive resistance, but active foray into battle. Patriotism of a certain type (not uncommon for the period) permeates 'Scouting for Boys' and therefore draws comment from historians.

One thesis is that, due to the failure of the Earl of Meath's Lads Drill Association and of the Cadet clauses in Haldane's 1907 Territorial Bill (defeated by 190 votes), the Militarists turned their attention to infiltrating military styled youth movements to try to produce a nationally prepared force by more devious methods. If this were true we should not be surprised that it should meet criticism given the presence of concerned pacifists in that society. Patriotism and citizenship as expressed by Baden-Powell not only aimed at an adult audience, but that written for a young readership, would have its attractions for the militarist.

B. The presence of militarists.
In 1910 out of 250 Presidents and Commissioners, 140 were classified as serving or retired military officers, 56 per cent #25. By 1912 this had risen sharply. Out of 11 members of the Executive Committee 5 were military officers and out of 352 Presidents and Commissioners 247 or 70 per cent were military officers #26. John Springhall's PhD Thesis deals at length with the presence of prominent National Service League members on the Scout Council; this membership would re-enforce the charge of militarism. In the 'Patriot' Vol III Oct 1910 #27, the Secretary of the West Essex Scouts writes; "In one year one troop alone supplied thirteen Territorial recruits. As there are 300,000 Scouts in the country, the organisation is a possible recruiting ground by no means to be despised." In 1921 when the League was wound up it handed its assets of £12,000 to the Boy Scouts Association as the body that most "successfully teaches the ideals of citizenship of which Lord Roberts' scheme was a part" #28. Other militaristic organisations also supported the work of the scouts such as The Legion of Frontiersmen, and in their official constitution was an injunction to assist the Boy Scouts, with a footnote quoting Baden-Powell stating that "members of the Legion of Frontiersmen are greatly respected by all Boy Scouts" #29. Vane did not directly blame B-P for what he saw as the movement's military direction but saw "that the control of the Baden-Powell's Boy Scouts has inevitably fallen into the hands of his military advisers" #30.

Such support from organisations favouring militarism whilst not providing a direct link is bound to favour the thesis of the Scouts providing a 'front' for more overt military ambitions. Dedman counts Baden-Powell's employment with the Territorial Army as his siding with Haldane - a volunteerist, as opposed to the National Service League's conscriptionists, thus showing he "was opposed to the conscriptionist arguments of the N.S.L." #31 This reasoning is to play down the role of the NSL in the development of the scout scheme. Against Dedman is the probable fact that the reason for Baden-Powell accepting the Command of the Northumbrian Territorials is less doctrinaire than he allows for. Baden-Powell was unemployed, his Cavalry post having ended #32. Also B-P's employment prevented him from giving all of his time to the Boy Scout Scheme for the first year and a half of its life, leaving its leadership to appointed men some of whom were NSL members and would have influenced the emphasis and direction of the movement.

C. Direct involvement of scouts in military preparations.
In 1909 Baden-Powell contemplated getting War Office recognition after the Scouts were firmly established #33. As late as 1916 Baden-Powell sought the War Office's help in restricting the Scout uniform to his organisation, involving some kind of 'recognition' by the War Office #34. In 'Scouting for Boys' one chapter is devoted to Marksmanship #35. In this chapter training in marksmanship is equated with patriotism and our eventual target in the advice offered by B-P is a 'man' #36. Future Editions were to amend the target to that of an 'object'. Initially there existed an option for Scout troops to register as cadet corps #37 an option that drew criticism #38 and was withdrawn #39. With the outbreak of the first world war B-P mobilised the scouts as auxiliary assistance. Scouts between fifteen and seventeen could receive special training in shooting, signalling, entrenching and basic infantry techniques #40. Such course of action avoided any direct military connections.
However many, including men like Hargrave #41 failed to appreciate the subtle difference between military training taught by the Army and military training taught by the Boy Scouts Association.

D. The B-P Scouts and a mirror image of the armed forces.
For every branch of the armed forces there was established a corresponding section within the Boy Scouts ,ie. Sea Scouts  in 1912 , then with the arrival of the second world war, Air Scouts 1940. A section in 'Scouting for Boys' was devoted to the Army and Navy #42; later editions included more material on the various ranks in the services before its total omission.
Whilst this is in keeping with other boy's literature of the period, it does show the impact of imperialism and would help generate interest in the armed forces. In introducing this section B-P writes "we must be careful to keep those Services supplied with good men" #43.

The Thesis built up so far from the discussion on the six questions posed at the outset of this article in relation to Vane and the BBS, is rehearsed as follows;
1) one of the motives for Baden-Powell's scheme of 'Scouting for Boys' was a concern for national defence. This does not exclude other motives such as offering character building or even an element of fun or adventure for young people.
2) This 'national defence' ingredient in the scheme attracted those who were military inclined, and saw the organisation as furthering their cause.
3) The furthering of the scheme by such men caused a schism early in the movements history, a schism that might have proved more lasting and therefore more serious had the rival organisation's main leader not become a bankrupt.
4) The schism was by 1911, on an international scale and evidenced protest against Baden-Powell's emerging organisation. Whilst the various members of the schismatic organisation would have had varying motives for their support of Vane's World Scouts, some criticisms were directed at the feared militarism of Baden-Powell's organisation. The remaining parts of the thesis awaits a discussion on the role of the critics and the importance of chronology;
5) This criticism voiced in the media caused Baden-Powell to steer a middle course away from any overt militarism that otherwise might have been allowed to continue.
6) The period under examination would also be critical. As time progresses there was an identifiable shift in position to more middle ideological ground, due to criticism.

E. The role of the Critics.
There was a debate in the Late Victorian/Edwardian Period about the influence of militarism within youth organisations, hence the creation of pacifist alternatives, and the strength of opinion in society of that period was probably responsible for avoiding overt militarism found elsewhere. B-P sought to gain a wide acceptance of his youth training methods which would aid national defence, hence his courting of Smith and the Boys' Brigade to form a single organisation. He was sensitive to the critics. B-P realised that if the Scouts were seen as a military organisation many parents would refuse to let their sons join #44. Yet the presence of military officers in his organisation, and certain comments to be found in 'Scouting for Boys' tended to support the critics.
The further strengthening of the British Boy Scouts by Vane's leadership and its attendant publicity - the creation of 'The National Peace Scouts' focused many peoples fears about the B-P Scouts. The pressure on B-P over this issue would have begun in December 1909 when Vane assumed leadership of the BBS. In February 1910 the launching of the National Peace Scouts would have applied further pressure. In 1910 the BBS saw further expansion throughout the Empire. By May 1910 the membership figure claimed for the BBS was 50,000, half that of B-P's organisation. By 1911 Vane had founded Scout organisations in Italy and France and forged alliances with organisations in the USA and South Africa.

It would be extremely difficult to deny any influence on the stance of B-P's organisation towards militarism. How military would the movement have been if there had been no criticism ?  Baden-Powell's new Governing Council ,to which Warren refers #45, was set up in reaction to the events of the Vane episode. It was the creation of this Council in December 1909 that brought H Geoffrey Elwes, a Churchman and Solicitor into Scouting. The presence of Elwes as a Christian philanthropist is cited both by Warren and Jeal #46 as providing a counter-balance to the military men. It must be noted that the widening of representation from society at large, was a reaction to Vane's criticisms.
Vane knew the immense amount of good the Scout movement could do, hence his part in the movement. Others such as Elwes would recognise this as well, yet did not share Vane's severe criticisms. Vane was not alone, as other philanthropists such as J Howard Whitehouse and the Cadbury Family did share Vane's misgivings. Whitehouse was once considered by Baden-Powell as the potential Managing Secretary for his movement. In 1910 he became Secretary to the National Peace Scouts #47. In 1912, when Vane became a bankrupt, Barrow Cadbury and C Brighton Rowntree did not join their troops to the B-P organisation but instead negotiated on behalf of British Boy Scout Troops with the pacifist Boys Life Brigade to create the Boys Life Brigade Scouts #48. Baden-Powell's organisation had failed to convince the Quakers of their civic aims. Vane's worries about the influence of militarism seemed justified.

Further approaches to B-P were made by Vane after the first world war in connection with the Scouts in Italy, where he had been involved with Scouting as founder since 1910. Vane sought to secure international relationships for the largest group of Italian Scouts. his plea was rejected. Although the resurgence of militarism within the B-P organisation was easily obtainable, and the first world war as a national crisis giving sufficient excuse, the post war scout movement became better organised on an international level, bringing together scouts from countries that had previously been enemies, a development Vane could only applaud. B-P was less forgiving than Vane and never received his overtures with any enthusiasm.

Allen Warren's reasoned defence of B-P and the Boy Scouts' Association, may not be entirely dispassionate and it could be argued that it falls into the genre of apologetics due to his membership of the organisation he is defending. Warren softens the charge by questioning what is meant by militarism and by re-examining Baden-Powell's aims. Warren's omission of the Vane episode was noted both by Anne Summers and John Springhall in their replies to Warren #49. Warren's defence in discounting Vane, is that Vane had pioneered a Cadet Corps in the 1880s and that he sought a reconciliation with Baden-Powell more than once #50. As Warren was afforded the final comment in the debate he initiated, no further room was provided in the English Historical Review to rescue Vane.
Vane had indeed been involved in founding and running for a short while a Cadet Corps both in the East End of London and at Karree in South Africa in 1901 #51. Vane had come to view the cadet movement as being "obsolete in the new era" and saw a greater potential in the scout movement for internationalism #52.
It is significant to note that in Vane's first attempt at reconciliation in May 1911, he sought a position once previously offered in the foreign section. It was in the internationalism of the movement where Vane saw its greatest potential as a force for peace. By May 1911 the Boy Scout Association would be cautious to be involved in any venture that would substantiate any charge of militarism, and this would include Haldane's Cadet scheme. Vane through the BBS had made his point.

F. Chronology.
In examining the charge of militarism in connection with B-P's organisation, chronology is an important factor. What may be true of the post Edwardian Scout Association (Boy Scouts Association pre 1967), should not be read back into the past especially the foundation years. There was a shift in presentation of the scheme, in relation to the critics, which could be dated to 1910 onwards. Tim Jeal suggests that the years from 1902 to 1909 give a better indication of B-P's original purposes, and that Warren concentrates his material from 1911 - 1920 #53. In the intervening period between Jeal's two sets of dates, Baden-Powell's movement was occupied with a rival movement, the existence of which, was evidence of criticism.

It would be difficult to deny any influence of the Vane schism on the ongoing development of Baden-Powell's movement. Martin Dedman suggests that Baden-Powell's scheme for the Boys Brigade 1904/1906 is evidence of citizenship (and therefore non-military) training #54. As Dedman is aware, the Boys Brigade scouting scheme of 1904/1906 was not a complete scheme #55 but only a proficiency subject. Also to be noted is the fact that the Boys Brigade undertook drill and used dummy rifles in their training. Baden-Powell was aware of the existing nature of Boys Brigade training which in its day was considered military hence the pacifist alternative of the Boys Life Brigade founded by John Paton in 1899. B-P offered scouting to add to the appeal of the Boys Brigade.
It is also no surprise that in dealing with the post 1911 period of the scout scheme that Dedman can point out that the Italian educationalist Dr M Montessori was happy about adopting Scout training in an educational experiment in Holland in 1939 and this would have not obtained if scouting were "a scheme for military training" #56. In the first place, Montessori would have learnt about the Scouts influenced by Vane's Italian Peace Scouts, and in the second place after the Vane crisis, B-P's organisation occupied a politically middle ground.

The Boy Scout scheme whilst it may have been born out of a concern for the Empire as well as a genuine desire to help young people, owes its success to its ability to have balanced the influences of the period and steered to more middle ground and hence to gain a wider influence. The critics surely played a major role in this. A shift in position towards that of a non-military organisation can be demonstrated by a simple comparison of one of the later editions of 'Scouting for Boys', with the earlier editions #57. Thus in conclusion ,Vane was justified in alerting both the public and members of the scout movement to the potential dangers of militarists steering the movement in the wrong direction. Through Vane's rebel organisation, change was effected to B-P's organisation from without, a change that was necessary to ensure the organisation's long tern survival. Yet the irony is that this process left Vane, who had caused the change, out in the cold.

#1 Sir Robert Baden-Powell, the Scout movement and citizen training in Great Britain 1900-1920, Allen Warren, English Historical Review Vol CI No 399 April 1987. (Warren B-P Debate).
#2 Baden-Powell: a final comment, Allen Warren, English Historical Review October 1987 Pages 948-950. (Warren, Final Comment).
#3 Tim Jeal, Baden-Powell, Hutchinson 1989. The Vane Rebellion Pages 404-409. Also Pages 428,544 and 545.
#4 Robert H MacDonald, Boys of the Empire, University of Toronto Press 1993. Page 181.
#5 Jeal, B-P, Page 428.
#6 see; E K Wade, The Piper of Pax, Pearson 2nd Ed 1931, page 163. E E Reynolds, The Boy Scout Jubilee, OUP 1957, page 123. E E Reynolds, Baden-Powell, OUP 1st Edition 1942 pages 169-170. B-P's Scouts (An official History), Collins 1961, pages 59-62. John Sinclair, Charisma and the Monolithic Nature of Scouting, SAGGA Journal - The Journal of the Scout and Guide Graduate Association, April 1968. Pages 2-3. Laszlo Nagy, 250 Million Scouts, Darnell 1985 page 68 etc,.
#7 Nagy, Page 68.
#8 Reynolds, B-P, 1st Ed, Page 170.
#9 Published in 1912.
#10 William Scovell Adams, Edwardian Portraits, Secker and Warberg 1957. Page 136.
#11 The Times, London Sept 15th 1909 Page 7.
#12 Michael Rosenthal, Character Factory, Collins, 1986. Page 194.
#13 Warren, B-P Debate, Page 378.
#14 Warren, B-P Debate, Page 378.
#15 Warren, B-P Debate, Page 378.
#16 Rosenthal, Character Factory, Page 191.
#17 Rosenthal, Character Factory, Page 192.
#18 "Most historians, in commenting on 'Scouting for Boys', have tended to concentrate on this envelope of socio-political attitudes and fads contained in the sections of the book directed primarily at adults,.........this interpretation of 'Scouting for Boys' distorts its true bias, which is that it is about scouting for boys..." Warren B-P Debate, Page 386f.
#19 Warren, B-P Debate, Page 376.
#20 Martin John Dedman, Economic and social factors affecting the development of youth organisations for civilian boys in Britain between 1880 and 1914, PhD Thesis London School of Economics and Political Science, University of London 1985. Chapter 6 passim. Jeal, B-P, see pages 365/6 notes on B-P's Johannesburg Lecture. cf. pages 362 and 373. Note on Scouting and Militarism page 410/1.
#21 Adams, Portraits, Page 123. Also quoted by Jeal, B-P, Page 340.
#22 Adams, Portraits, Page 137.
#23 B-P Scouting For Boys Fortnightly Part V (B-P SFB FP) 12th February 1908, Page 314.
#24 B-P SFB FP V 12th February 1908, Pages 331-332.
#25 Debate Baden-Powell and the Scout Movement before 1920: Citizen Training or Soldiers of the Future, John Springhall English Historical Review October 1987. Pages 939/940. (Springhall, B-P debate).
#26 George Allen 1912 Page 8. These numbers are often quoted ie Rosenthal, Character Factory, Page 206 & John Springhall, Youth, Empire and Society, Croom Helm 1977. Page 128. Warren seeks to play down the involvement of the National Service League members to the role of supporters of the movement as opposed to being involved in the running of the movement - B-P Debate, Page 388.
#27 a National Service League Journal.
#28 Quoted in John Springhall, The Boy Scouts, Class and Militarism in relation to British Youth Movements 1908-1930, International Review of Social History, Volume XVI Part 2 1971. Page 137.
#29 Rosenthal, Character Factory, Pages 208-209.
#30 Sir Francis Vane bt, The Boy Knight, The Council of the National Peace Scouts 1910. Page 19.
#31 Dedman PhD, Page 188.
#32 Jeal, B-P, Page 387.
#33 Rosenthal, Character Factory, Page 191.
#34 War Office 114/Misc/447 (C.I.) June 4th 1916.
#35 B-P SFB FP V 12th February 1908, Page 322.
#36 B-P SFB FP V 12th February 1908, Page 324 see Rosenthal op cit Page 226f.
#37 Warren, B-P Debate, Page 391.
#38 see J Springhall PhD, Page 242. For a contemporary note on such a Troop see The Boy Scout Bubble Pages 57-58. There is also photographic evidence in 'The Boy Scout's Library' Gail and Polden 1910 Vol X 'Cyclist Scout Training by a B-P Scout' Photographs of Scouts with Carbines opposite pages;8,28,44,45.
#39 Warren, B-P Debate, Page 391.
#40 Rosenthal, Character Factory, Page 228.
#41 John Hargrave was a member of the Boy Scouts Association and was invalided out of the War in 1916. He served as HQ Commissioner for Camping and Woodcraft. He was a highly charismatic figure, and became a critic of the militarism and bureaucracy of the organisation. He sought to move scouting back to its woodcraft indian beginnings. His criticism caused his ejection and he formed the short lived 'Kibbo Kift'.
#42 see B-P SFB FP V 12th February 1908, Pages 328-330.
#43 B-P SFB FP V 12th February 1908, Pages 327-328f.
#44 Rosenthal, Character Factory, Page 191f.
#45 Springhall, B-P debate, Pages 934-942. Scouts, Guides and VADs: a note in reply to Allen Warren Anne Summers, English Historical Review October 1987 Pages 943-947.
#46 Warren, Final Comment, Page 949/950.
#47 The founding of a Cadet Corps by Vane in 1884 is well established. For the Karree Cadet Corps see Vane, Agin, Page 128.
#48 Vane, Agin, Pages 207-208.
#49 Warren, B-P Debate, Page 391
#50 Warren, Final Comment, Page 950, Jeal, B-P, Page 414.
#51 The Complete History of the British Boy Scouts 1909-1989, The Reverend Michael Foster, The Brotherhood of British Scouts Aylesbury 1989, Page 9.
#52 The Complete History of the British Boy Scouts 1909-1989, The Reverend Michael Foster, The Brotherhood of British Scouts Aylesbury 1989, Page 13.
#53 Jeal, B-P, Page 627, footnote 10 to Chapter nine.
#54 Dedman PhD, Pages 193-195.
#55 Dedman PhD, Page 194.
#56 Dedman PhD, Pages 210-211.
#57 23rd Edition, Pearson, 1961, 24th Edition, The Scout Association 1967.

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